Santo Subito

[arisbe]

Not just another Mexican wrestling movie:

Archbishop Dziwisz, John Paul's trusted private secretary, specified that he wanted John Paul canonised - not just beatified - during the Cologne visit. Asked if Benedict might declare him a martyr - which would spare the Vatican from having to find and confirm a miracle attributed to John Paul - the archbishop responded, "In any case, people want him to be a saint."

Subito in this case meaning something like next month.

It seems to me that to be shot in a political assassination attempt and die a quarter of a century later is not exactly what the ancient Fathers of the Church called martyrdom. Never mind. In the case of St. Thomas Aquinas, the Pope back then said, Every article (of his writings) is a miracle. And you know, he may have been right.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Mmm, I have to disagree on the martyr status. John Paul II was a great man and is a great saint without the crown of martyrdom - to award it for the assassination attempt when he died a quarter-century later seems, to me, to blur the line to an unnecessary degree. He sacrificed his life to his ministry, as any good priest does, but he wasn't killed for his faith or belief in God.

I think many people would criticize the decision to name him a martyr, and it would be a shame to let a debate like that taint the legacy and public memory of such a great pope.

[myrhapsody.livejournal.com]

Sorry, this is Nikki; forgot to log in!

[arisbe.livejournal.com]

The disturbing thing is that a Church which used to think in terms of centuries is now looking ahead in a time frame of weeks.

It IS Really Disturbing...

[publius-aelius.livejournal.com]

...because, to anyone who's studied the history of the Church since the 19th century, it's perfectly obvious that it has more to do with politics of papal infallability than it has to do with a genuine discernment of some candidate's sanctity. The ability to canonise is, in the Roman tradition, the peculiar prerogative of the papacy--so much so that the OTHER ways of arriving at this conclusion (a local, popular cult; a initiative of a local diocese, etc.) are being completely discarded so that the Roman Church may become even more of a papal monarchy. The Roman Church is actually morphing into something it never was, even in my youth. And it's the fantastically ignorant, most "Protestantized" of all Catholics--the Americans--who are the most ignorant of it, and the most enthusiastic about it. It's the victory of media culture over orthodox Christianity. We can't even recognized how indecorous, how bad-mannered it is, here.

Re: It IS Really Disturbing...

[bix.livejournal.com]

In JPII's case, I think it's political and even more circular; if he becomes a saint, then any decision to stick to his treachings and general direction for the Church can be all the more justified; See! We know he was right! He was a Pope (infalliable) AND a saint!
(Next trick--black is white!)

[daphneisgood.livejournal.com]

wouldn't "confessor" work? it's my impression that's the term used for someone who suffered for the faith but didn't die for it.

Wouldn't work.

[arisbe.livejournal.com]

Needs miracles.

[nandan.livejournal.com]

So if he's proven to be a martyr he gets to skip miracle making and move directly to sainthood?

Cool loophole!

"no one loved young people like the pope and they loved him. It would be wonderful for a German pope to canonise a Polish pope in Cologne."

Sounds disturbingly Michael Jackson meets Hitler youth.

[arisbe.livejournal.com]

Originally martyrs were the only recognized saints. So miracles became loopholes for the rest of us.

[nandan.livejournal.com]

Ah ha! Interesting.

The Cannonization Process

[speaks.livejournal.com]

I think the Information Age has been sort of reason, AND a disservice to the cannonization process.

As the article states, it used to be a 50 year waiting period before cannonization proceedures could begin, then 25 then 10 then 5 with John XXIII (My favorite Pope. My second favorite was Gregory VII)

Now back in the middle ages, it could take 50 years to learn all you needed about a person. Heck, in the Jefferson/Adams presidential races Adams claimed that everyone should vote for him because Jefferson had DIED! So as recently as 200 years ago, communication was so bad you could not be certain if a presidential candidate was in fact living during the race itself.

On the other hand, we have become a very disposable/recyclable culture. Sure JPII is all the rage now, but 10 years from now who will remember him? And HOW will he be remembered in 10 years. Sometimes it takes time for history to die down and give a more accurate portrayal of what a person was like.

Saints in their own way are kind of silly. We don't really need them. They serve no REAL purpose other than role-models and possible intercessors. You can pray to God or Jesus directly without the help of St. Anthony to find your car keys. It just feels nice to have good old Anthony around. And everyone who finds their car keys might go look up information on the Virtuous Saint. (http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/sainta01.htm)

So, the process after JPII went through the Saint Mill really devalued our Saints already. Its just making it worse and worse. And I will never put a little statue of JPII on my dashboard.

Re: The Cannonization Process

[arisbe.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the link to St. Anthony. I had no idea stewardesses had a patron saint. The small samples of his own writing are quite impressive; I seem to recall he was (before his conversion?) a professor of philosophy.

[bix.livejournal.com]

The article isn't exactly accurate...to my understanding, even martyrs have to have one miracle attributed to them. Martyrdom cuts the requirement in half. I might be wrong.
And while I do not blithely dismiss the extended suffering caused by the assassination attempt, nonetheless, the Pope died from a combination of Parkinson's and old age and to deny that devalues both genuine martyrs (not that he didn't miss becoming one by a hair's breadth) and the elderly both.
Still, I've said it before; if the Church simply stuck to the basic definition of saint--heroic virtue plus a model of holiness (ie devout spirituality etc), hard enough qualifications, both of them--then JPII is an obvious choice. I never understood the need for these eyerolling-inducing miraculous "proofs."
Love the Aquinas comment.