arisbe: (Default)
arisbe ([personal profile] arisbe) wrote2005-04-11 12:46 pm

Mo Popery

I am getting behind in my personal posting and responding, and this may become a bit more frequent. I apologize for now and for later.

Meanwhile, my surgery is scheduled for May 18, not May 12 as I had thought. The Operating Room penmanship leaves much to be desired.

For once the Cardinals aren't talking. And I don't mean the ball team, if, indeed, they still exist.

They have said enough already to indicate the agreed upon general policy of the next Papacy, whoever is elected to it, according to the probably pseudonymous Sandro Magister, writing in Chiesa. His sources are significant (and public), and I find his analysis highly persuasive.

I hope my LJ friends who consider themselves progressive Catholics and their sympathizers do not find this too discouraging.

I strongly support interreligious dialogue, and have contributed to it in my own small way, but I don't think it is best advanced by glitzy summit meetings. I have mixed feelings about the apologies. The acknowledgment of anti-Semitism was needful and will not be retracted. The apologies to the Orthodox Christians were off target for reasons I can go into on another occasion. And the constant world travel and the organization of mass demonstrations of youth did little to help and something to hurt the vitality of the Church on the local level, which is, after all, where it lives. Significantly, this seems to be acknowledged even by Cardinals close to Opus Dei, the Legionaires, and the lay movements.

Today's news from Rome seems to be limited to a feeble protest of the deplorable Cardinal Law in his carrying out of a ceremonial function of the office to which the late Pope appointed him after his disgrace. We shall no doubt be subjected to more coverage when he and his fellows are locked up, perhaps fairly briefly, a week from now. Not the way he, in particular, ought to have been locked up.

Rallies

[identity profile] keith418.livejournal.com 2005-04-11 05:31 pm (UTC)(link)
It's interesting to contrast the critique of the rallies with the same kinds of Protestant criticism the "Promise Keepers" used to get when they were holding their rallies in stadiums, etc..

Re: Rallies

[identity profile] arisbe.livejournal.com 2005-04-12 03:14 am (UTC)(link)
Or Billy Graham, for that matter.

[identity profile] daisydumont.livejournal.com 2005-04-11 05:45 pm (UTC)(link)
thanks for the link to Chiesa. i'd never seen it before.

[identity profile] arisbe.livejournal.com 2005-04-12 03:15 am (UTC)(link)
A source with a real point of view. I wonder who's behind them.

Sandro Magister

[identity profile] mizannie.livejournal.com 2005-04-11 07:54 pm (UTC)(link)
Thanks, Frank. This is ice water in the veins!

It makes one wonder about John Paul with his bringing Cardinal Law to Rome and placing him in an office after his "disgrace," as you delicately put it. The boys club in action...cover up.

Annie

Re: Sandro Magister

[identity profile] arisbe.livejournal.com 2005-04-12 03:13 am (UTC)(link)
Might not be as bad as all that. Then again, might be wishful thinking by the theological right.

The Polish Mafia may have thought they were insulting Law by giving him a ceremonial post without any real influence. It did not occur to them that they were insulting the Church. Or they didn't care.

[identity profile] naqerj.livejournal.com 2005-04-11 09:03 pm (UTC)(link)
I have to admit I love the word "popery." A Google image search (http://images.google.com/images?q=popery&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search) with that term yields interesting results.


Out of curiousity, what do you think the next papacy's relationship with the Orthodox and with Eastern Catholics is likely to be?

[identity profile] uncreatedlight.livejournal.com 2005-04-11 11:08 pm (UTC)(link)
Man, those fishing lures makes my heart go pitter-pat.

[identity profile] naqerj.livejournal.com 2005-04-12 12:11 am (UTC)(link)
Hey, I'm serious! I'm not baiting him. I promise.

[identity profile] arisbe.livejournal.com 2005-04-12 03:28 am (UTC)(link)
Seems like you asked a legitimate question, and one I couldn't help thinking about. JP II was directly involved in my parish. If the new guy shuts us down, we are not all going to be able to move to Denver, where Fr. Chrysostom, formerly with the OCA in South Africa, has the only other Russian Catholic church this side of California.

[identity profile] naqerj.livejournal.com 2005-04-12 10:49 am (UTC)(link)
Why do you think you might get shut down?

[identity profile] arisbe.livejournal.com 2005-04-12 05:17 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm sorry if I gave that impression. Stop by next time you are in Little Italy for San Gennaro!

[identity profile] arisbe.livejournal.com 2005-04-12 02:13 am (UTC)(link)
Less concerned with reunification and more with putting its own house in order, which may be better in the long run. This is going to involve a retreat from the extreme Papalism of JP II, and a more appropriate recognition of the autonomy of the Eastern Catholic Churches. I fully expect to see those Churches permitted to ordain married men to the priesthood in North America for North America.

If Rome doesn't do the right thing here rather quickly, there may well be a significant return of individuals, parishes, and communities to canonical Orthodoxy. Rome might even welcome such a development.

I think the Orthodox are keenly interested in how the Pope and Curia treat, not only the Eastern Churches, but the Roman Catholic bishops as well.

They are also interested in the Orthodoxy of the Catholic Church, its general faithfulness to common doctrines. The continued insistance on these will be greatly appreciated.

The Russian issue is a big headache. From what I hear, the Patriarchate is falling apart and a great many groups and individuals would like to be be recognized by Rome as Russian Catholics. JP II said and did the right things, but may not have been in complete control of some Catholic zealots. The new guy may be better able to handle them.

There is a slim chance that we will get another half Ruthenian Pope. Though one analyst claimed that the only black mark against Husar is his American passport. But I understand he turned that in. No black mark, then, but a very dark horse.

That's the best I can come up with off the top of my head.

[identity profile] walrus828.livejournal.com 2005-04-13 07:00 pm (UTC)(link)
best of luck on the surgery.

[identity profile] arisbe.livejournal.com 2005-04-15 03:02 pm (UTC)(link)
Thank you kindly. We should have a new Pope by then, at least.